Sebastian Manhart | Carbon Removal: Where Technology Should Meet Policy
The Curious Learners Ep. 36
Hi everyone. My guest today is Sebastian Manhart. He is the senior policy adviser at Carbonfuture, which is a technology company building an operating system for high quality carbon removals.
Sebastian has a super interesting background of over a decade of entrepreneurship and an advisory role with the German government on decentralized identity. His move into climate-tech and more specifically carbon removals is a result of his passion for this space.
Sebastian and I had an eye-opening conversation on how governments view frontier technologies, state of the play for carbon removal policy globally, range of technologies for high quality carbon removals and of course what Carbonfuture is building in this exciting space.
Please see below for some of the highlights of our discussion.
Technology vs Policy. How do these two work together?
Don't believe anything can reach significant scale without these two working together. Climate-tech is one area, where there is a strong collaboration (unlike crypto for example).
How do governments and policy makers view frontier technologies?
There is a gap to close in terms of degree of technical capability at governments and help them better understand the potential of frontier technologies. It works best when governments make use of the talent and knowledge base of private sector.
In what practical ways do you help founding teams? How much of a difference does being proactive make it?
It is rare to find entrepreneurial approach in policy, i.e. being proactive, getting things done and solving problems. Processing policy and feeding it back to a company's strategy is only the first step. What needs to happen is influence, which only works with a proactive approach.
What was your transition from advising on crypto to climate-tech?
Crypto is super exciting as well, but climate-tech combines two of my biggest passion: nature and technology.
What is your take on the climate-tech space from a policy perspective? And how does it differ across regions?
Very early days across the board. Different regions are getting closer to one another, but they are taking different approaches. US takes a 'carrot' approach, while EU does ' stick'
What does carbon removal actually mean?
Capturing atmospheric CO2 (which is already out there) and store it for a long period of time, where the length of that period is directly related to the quality of carbon removal, i.e. permanence. It is also important to distinguish carbon removal as a net negative process vs net-neutral processes (e.g. carbon capture and storage from a fossil source).
What is high-quality carbon removal?
It is how long you store CO2 for (permanence) that determines the quality of carbon removal. There is a confusion in the market, which is treating carbon removal credits as fungible, which is not. 5-year credit is no way comparable to a 10,000-year credit. On the lower end of the spectrum, there is reforestation / afforestation. And on the higher-durability technologies, there is a range that includes direct air capture, bioenergy carbon capture and storage and others.
What doe Carbonfuture do?
It provides an operating system for high-quality carbon removal with all the services and tool sets that the suppliers of carbon removal credits and buyers need.
What carbon removal technology does Carbonfuture currently focus on?
Biochar, which stores CO2 in the form of charcoal. This is achieved through a process called pyrolysis, which involves heating organic matter without any oxygen (such as wood, agricultural waste, or even sewage).
What made you get attracted to Carbonfuture over bunch of other companies in this space?
1) The broader focus on high-quality carbon removal vs. one single technology
2) The team
3) Long-term focus, which is exemplified in including only credible third-party verified credits on the platform
How do you get new suppliers onto the platform?
It goes to the point of understanding what suppliers need. For example, financing is key for smaller suppliers. It usually takes them a long time to get paid for their carbon removal credits. Carbonfuture offers them the option to get paid immediately.
How about buyers of carbon credits? What attracts them to Carbonfuture?
Number of buyers who buy large amounts of high-quality carbon removal is limited. It is due to this risk of bad reputation when they go invest in bad projects. The best way to address this challenge is to increase transparency and credibility of carbon removal projects presented to them.
What is the northstar metric at Carbonfuture?
Tons of high-quality carbon removal delivered.
What is missing in carbon removal markets? What is your agenda for 2023?
Single most important thing that we need in this industry is scale, which is only possible with significant investment. And I will work on the regulatory framework to create trust and hence drive investment into the sector.
What are you most #curious about these days and what are you doing to #learn more about it?
Cleantech has so many dimensions and it is a deep rabbit hole for me. I continue to learn more about it everyday.